Thoughts on learning FCPX

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Re: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Eric Wise

Eeesh! I knew shooting ratios were bad but I didn't know they had gotten that high: 800 - 1000:1 - Oy.

I'm an Avid/FCP 7 guy learning FCP X now and yeah, there's been a lot of pausing and rewinding as I try to make sure I fully understand the tutorial. Shane, your media-mgt DVD was really good and I only wish that more editors bought it. Maybe Philip Hodgetts book on metadata in X will be more widely read.

I also hope that the developer community and manufacturers will extend the functionality of meta-tagging in X. It would be nice if there was some way for a PA or assist to create metadata on-the-fly on-set. It might be tricky but at least there would be more info about the clip in FCP X right of the bat. The TurboComments feature in Adobe OnLocation already does this so I know it's possible...

Eric Wise
Splice Vine

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Re: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Jeff Greenberg

[Shane Ross] - THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Right there. Because "most editors" most likely didn't start out as assistants, where it was their job to organize footage. Nor did most of these editors get any sort of training, or go to school for this...where they would be taught to organize, and HOW to organize

Couldn't be more true and I love recommending your DVD to people. It's why I teach - I struggle with the idea that people just don't want to read/learn.

The answer isn't to dumb down the app to meet the needs of the uneducated...the answer is to EDUCATE them.

The answer with all tools (especially the sexy cool ones) are to make them accessible. Do you know people hanging out a shingle and saying they're a production company because they have a 7d, a MacBook pro and FCP7? I sure as hell do. I struggle with the idea that software should be easy and intuitive...and that it should also require education to use.

The car needs minimal education. So does Microsoft Word. I encounter 'professionals' who think that after a year they're 'experts' about what they do. I shrug and accept it.

I think the industry for a decade has been about the following term: "A race to the bottom."
Cheaper tools, cheaper (lower quality) formats. Cheaper distribution.

Makes one want to sigh, doesn't it?

[Herb Sevush]
I get all your other points, but if you want FCP7 to set up a sequence for you, it's automatic as well, just drop the first clip in a timeline and the sequence auto-conforms.

Herb you're totally right.

I think FCPX has done that even better. Which format should I pick for 720, 1080 & SD footage. Oh yeah, some of it was shot on a 5d and some of it on an iphone.

FCPX does and doesn't do what FCP7 does - it gives the ability to match the first clip - but it's all hidden, not something that a new user ever has to deal with. FCP7? Launch, pick an easy setup (What's an easy setup?) then drop a clip in (don't let it be audio) and you get a dialog box "What is this footage.) FCPX? Drop and go.

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer | Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC | Adobe Cert. Instructor
------------
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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Jeff Greenberg

A couple of extra thoughts.

First, I meant to mention that the Media SETTINGS (not just media management) is a mess. How a sequence should be setup is a mess for many people. FCPX does that for you too.

[Mark Raudonis] "The only way to handle this influx is to be very well organized. I'm afraid key words ain't gonna cut it at this level.
"

That's the problem. Be well organized. Most editors I meet aren't - and aren't prepared for the consequences. Keywording does work; you miss one clip in your manual organization and you've got a problem. You are keywording - but by bin name, selects, etc. This is an alternative method of managing clips.

[Gary Huff] "r. Keywording is generally useless here because there's no reason for me to go through the footage and keyword it. I'm better off sorting it chronologically and remembering what I shot when (and making mental notes while I'm shooting to use later). It's simply a waste of time (and money) to do otherwise."

I know about fast turn arounds (as well as long form.) FCPX does break down clips chronologically - if you want. I wouldn't keyword under fast turn around anything beyond selects/favorites. It's no different than using bins

And I don't mean to defend FCPX - merely to point out how I see the way to dance with it.

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Shane Ross

[Jeff Greenberg] "Be well organized. Most editors I meet aren't - and aren't prepared for the consequences. "

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Right there. Because "most editors" most likely didn't start out as assistants, where it was their job to organize footage. Nor did most of these editors get any sort of training, or go to school for this...where they would be taught to organize, and HOW to organize. No, most bought software and just started editing, without any training whatsoever. And it shows. Then they get hired on broadcast shows to edit and they cause big messes...and then they either learn from their mistakes (hopefully), or they blame the software for "not acting right."

Apple's answer? Let's dumb things down so you don't need to learn organization. The app will do that for you...just type in words you want to look up later. We'll organize for you! Well, for those who were trained to be organized, and how to do this, that is a horrible approach. The answer isn't to dumb down the app to meet the needs of the uneducated...the answer is to EDUCATE them. Well, they need to educate themselves, but many people feel that "going to film school is a waste of time and money." Or taking training is a waste of time. They don't want to organize...watch footage. They want to EDIT! They want the sexy part of the job without the tedious part of the job.

This is why I made a DVD on how to be organized, because I found that a majority of new editors I ran into, and saw on the forums, had ZERO clue about what organization was, and how it could help.

OK, keywording does help...I will give it that. It is a good step. But I still need bins, I need to manually organize my footage MY way. The way that all the other NLEs allow, and previous FCP did too.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Andrew Richards

[Shane Ross] "OK, keywording does help...I will give it that. It is a good step. But I still need bins, I need to manually organize my footage MY way. The way that all the other NLEs allow, and previous FCP did too."

How are keyword collections materially different from bins? By my reckoning they are bins plus (if you treat them like bins), not bins minus. Metadata requires at least as much organizational rigor as traditional bins if it is going to be at all useful.

Best,
Andy

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Herb Sevush

"How a sequence should be setup is a mess for many people. FCPX does that for you too."

I get all your other points, but if you want FCP7 to set up a sequence for you, it's automatic as well, just drop the first clip in a timeline and the sequence auto-conforms.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Mark Raudonis

[Jeff Greenberg] "How much are they shooting? 150:1 (or more.) "

We blew past 150-1 years ago. Now it can be upwards of 300-800 to 1 (or even higher).

In all fairness, much of that material is multicam coverage, so if you're rolling three car cams for example, you're automatically tripling your footage. Surveillance cams in multiple rooms also ups the count. Throw in hour long interviews (no starting and stopping) with dozens of cast members, and again, you're upping the count. So, the "coverage inflation" is more due to the lower cost of acquisition than any failure in vision or direction. Having said that, I often complain about the ever upward trend of mo media, mo media, mo media!

The only way to handle this influx is to be very well organized. I'm afraid key words ain't gonna cut it at this level.

Mark

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Andrew Richards

[Mark Raudonis] "The only way to handle this influx is to be very well organized. I'm afraid key words ain't gonna cut it at this level."

I'm curious, if you are willing to share, what Bunim-Murray does to deal with all that media? I assume some sort of MAMS?

Best,
Andy

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Gary Huff

[Mark Raudonis]I'm afraid key words ain't gonna cut it at this level.

I do a lot of short-form web work that includes a short turn-around time. I realize FCPX does some auto-keywording upon ingest, but it's very basic. These short turn-arounds mean that I'm editing within hours or shooting, no more than a day later. Keywording is generally useless here because there's no reason for me to go through the footage and keyword it. I'm better off sorting it chronologically and remembering what I shot when (and making mental notes while I'm shooting to use later). It's simply a waste of time (and money) to do otherwise.

The problem with the whole database media management thing is that someone has to go through it all and label it out. Who's going to do that? In a big post environment, I would assume the assistant would, who would then need to share the project, which FCPX doesn't make easy.

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Steve Connor

You don't have to use the complexity of the keyword system though, you can actually use the keyword system in the same way you would use bins

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Andrew Richards

[Gary Huff] "The problem with the whole database media management thing is that someone has to go through it all and label it out. Who's going to do that? In a big post environment, I would assume the assistant would, who would then need to share the project, which FCPX doesn't make easy."

I'm sure a documentarian with loads of footage to sift through could make excellent use of thoroughly tagged media. It would also be very useful for breaking down footage from a sporting event.

Certainly, not using the keywording feature is an option. Are you implying the old bin model is better for your workflow? Or simply that on quick turns you'd rather sort by date and pick from the pile regardless of the organizational model?

Sharing via sneaker-net is very straightforward and well executed, IMO. Just make sure you are doing your copying and moving from within FCPX and not the Finder. There isn't any support for live sharing via shared storage, but there are hints in the guts that there could be in the future. Giving away Xsan with Lion and adding Thunderbolt (and thus the ability to physically connect to Xsan networks) to every new Mac points to featuring shared storage more and not less. Or that is all just a tragic coincidence...

Best,
Andy

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by MIke Guidotti

[Andrew Richards] "Sharing via sneaker-net is very straightforward and well executed, IMO" When you work in a facility with multiple editors including full-time staff and freelancers, whom all practice bad file management as it is, and your rooms are constantly full the added time of sneaker-net is not an option.

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Re: Blog: Thoughts on learning FCPX
by Andrew Richards

[MIke Guidotti] "When you work in a facility with multiple editors including full-time staff and freelancers, whom all practice bad file management as it is, and your rooms are constantly full the added time of sneaker-net is not an option."

Completely agree. I've been on the support side of a few of those, so I know that truth intimately. However, even among "pros", facility-wide shared storage is not the norm. Apple took care of the low hanging fruit with the sneaker-net crowd, now we need them to do something about the Xsan crowd.

Best,
Andy